Growth Gossip

Michal: Gossip podcast,
where we talk about grow

Romeo: with what exactly

we are going to find out what's
behind is buzzword hosted

Michal: by yours.

Truly Michal, of yolk, workspace,
and community, in Krakow

Romeo: And me Romeo Mann
founder of MAN Digital.

Michal: You're the man.

Hey Romeo.

So who are we talking to today?

Romeo: Today?

I'm really excited to talk with Antonello.

He is from Italy, from a small town
next to Rome, and he will tell us

actually how he got into Google
and his whole journey and all the

nice stories of, being in this tech
industry, helping start ups and so on.

He's working here in Krakow.

We have him in the studio, so I'm
really excited to get into this call,

Michal: Google, Italy, Krakow.

Let's get into it.

Romeo: Let's do it.

Hey Antonello.

Welcome to our podcast.

Great to see you again.

Hi Michal.

Michal: Hey Romeo

Romeo: Antonello, so we met first
time at Google campus, right?

That's correct.

We were both mentors for
Google launchpad accelerator.

We will go in details what what's Google
for startups and Google launchpad,

but today you work for YouTube,
but before you worked for Google,

We all know what these companies do.

So I will not ask you what
I usually ask other guests.

But can you tell us a bit what
you do today at YouTube and

what does that mean, actually?

Antonello: Yep.

So first of all, my name is
Antonella Schiavo, right?

For the, for the people
that don't know me.

So what do I do right now?

Right now in my vendor manager
for YouTube trust in safety.

So basically on my day to day, I work
with vendor partners across different

locations in in Europe and they manage
these operational vendor partners.

So my goal basically is to
transfer the knowledge from inside

YouTube and manage this company.

On the way they work with our platform.

So the main point of the
trust and safety industry is

basically to review the content.

They shouldn't be allowed
on the YouTube platform.

So if you imagine, for example, not
only YouTube, but every company that

has content like Facebook TikTok, et
cetera, they have a trust and safety

department and they work for the YouTube
trust and safety department managing the

collaboration with these vendor companies.

Romeo: Got it.

Got it.

So what I'm curious today to go
through how you get to work for

Google, how you get to work for a
platform like, like YouTube, right?

'cause I'm sure

Michal: there's a lot of people
out there who that sort of sounds

like a dream job, you know?

Cause that that's the big boys, you know,

Romeo: so yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Antonello: It was my dream job too as well
when I, when I wanted to, to enter it.

So

Romeo: that's great.

So we have, we have.

An hour packed four different stories.

So feel free to go in as
much as details as you want.

So tell us a bit about, you know, the
beginnings, because the thing I know about

you is that you are from body and not body
next to body next to Rome next to the all.

But, so why did I understand about body?

It was between the . Okay, cool.

And the beginning you were telling me
that you, in, in the city, you have.

The cookies that for weddings, right.

And you call them how we are called the

Antonello: confetti

Romeo: confetti.

So like what we usually do for
birthday parties when we use

concert is to celebrate, right?

Yeah.

In

Antonello: English, that's the word.

But, you know in Italy these
type of confetti are normally

used during weddings.

So they are like small, white
sweets that are made from almonds.

And then, you know, you have a
lot of sugar, of course you need.

And they are very famous because
you know, my city is called Sulmona

and that's where they come from.

So just to give an example, even during
the wedding of the Royal family in

UK, there was one company that sold.

The confetti from my city.

So it was so nice to see that, you
know, they made personalized confetti

for for the Royal family in UK.

Oh,

Romeo: that's what

Michal: a great product for a town to
be known for, you know, like something

that's all about celebration and it's,
it's, it's so photogenic and all that,

Antonello: that he's
even a museum of fighting

Romeo: big into that.

I want to see the

Michal: evolution of confetti.

Romeo: Cool.

So you you're from this town, but you
studied where you studied in Rome or in,

Antonello: I studied in Pescara and
my main region is called the brutes.

All right.

So that's where I come from.

And Pescara is basically 70
kilometers from my own town.

So it's like, you know, Seaside
CD, very nice place as well to

go during the summer, et cetera.

And that's where I had my, my study.

So I studied there for four or five years.

I had my bachelor in
business administration.

Then I went for Erasmus
to Poland in 2000, 2012.

I went for Erasmus to Poland in dusk.

Then I came back, I finished
my masters from city to

Romeo: from sea to sea

Antonello: Exactly.

From sea to sea.

I'm, I'm a huge lover of seaside.

Right.

So actually the, my dream is to live on a
Mediterranean island when I, when I will

be 50, if I, if I will arrive at that.

Yeah.

And so I finished my business
administration master

degree as well in Italy.

And then that's where I started my
professional career in around 2014.

Romeo: Yeah.

And I w w what's funny is that you
know, yolk community and work,

what coworking space We are
having the podcast there place.

And while we were coming here, you
were telling me how that, Hey, I

did my thesis in in coworking.

So that's interesting.

So I'm sure that we have, we
have a bunch of question about

what this, this whole thesis.

Contains

Michal: Just real quick.

Like what motivated you
to focus on that topic?

Antonello: Everything started because I
had a great professor and there was the

subject called the innovation management.

Right?

So, and this professor inspired
us a lot with a lot of innovative

accompanies innovations, et cetera
around, you know, digital companies,

what they were doing at the time.

And, you know, I'm
talking about 2012, 2013.

And at that time in U S there was
starting the concept of coworking.

And just to give you an idea in Italy
during the 2012, 2013, there were only

really Fuco working around, around either.

So it was just a new concept in
Italy, but it was already developing

outside of Italy, like in us.

Romeo: We work was in that period.

Then they started,

Antonello: I think a bit
later if I remember correct.

And so that's what inspired me because
you know, these old concept of not having

a specific coffees, but you know, being
a freelancer and, you know, if you go

to an, a new city, you have a place
to stay and those, some place to work.

That's what inspired me.

And my master thesis was about coworking.

So the first part was around, how do you
create the community inside the coworking?

Because that's the main part of
what makes a coworking, right?

The community.

Michal: That's something that
we discovered along the way.

Antonello: Yeah, exactly.

And the second part was more about
the practical on practical plan

on how to create a coworking.

And there was a business plan on
how to open a coworking in in

an Italian city, for example.

Romeo: And you wanted to open that.

I

Antonello: wanted at the time, but then
I changed my, my priority, but maybe.

It doesn't mean that later on
in my life, I will open one.

Right?

Michal: Of course we want to focus
on, on you and your story and what

you're doing, but community in the
context of coworking is something

that's near and dear to my heart.

I'm curious.

What are your thoughts on creating
nourishing, supporting community?

Yeah,

Antonello: so it was interesting because
I was visiting one coworking in when it

was last year in in Paphos, in Cyprus.

And I think for me, community,
I've seen it live in that place.

One the opportunity to feel welcome in a
new place, even if you don't know anyone.

So for example, when I arrived in that
coworking, as soon as they arrived, they

showed me the calendar event of the week.

For example, you know, they had
the sunset yoga everyone's day,

or, you know, creating a lot of
networking opportunities, right.

Because at the end of the day, I've
been also in other coworkings where

maybe, you know, they could be
classified only as a desk rental space.

Right.

Right, right.

And that's the main problem because
people think that co-working is only

desk ranting, but what makes a unique
coworking is the community, the events,

networking opportunities, et cetera.

So I would say that's
the main part for me.

Whenever I go to a co-working place,
I want to see what's happening there.

Why people, you know, maybe
are collaborating between

each other, you know, maybe
creating side projects together.

I think that's what Makes
a coworking unique.

Yeah.

Then

Romeo: I think also Google is
pushing a lot on this, at least

with the Google, for developers
together with Google developers.

There are a lot of communities that
are around, around Google, right?

Yep.

That's

Antonello: true.

I think, yeah, there are also a lot of
students, communities of think if you're

a student you can apply for, you know,
one of these, I think they're called GDG

community so that, you know, it's, they're
mainly for engineers and developers.

But yeah, we have a lot of
communities around the world you

know, from startups as you know,
and as well for, for developers.

So I think it's, it's the new, it's a
new concept that is gonna grow even more

considering the work the remote work
that is, you know, growing right now.

Romeo: And so you finished in
Pescara, you finished the DC.

You didn't open a call and then you
decided to go for Google or you w w

how, how was the, this, this idea?

How okay.

I want to go for Google.

So what do I do to get there?

Yeah.

Antonello: So there is a funny
story behind because when I was

Erasmus in Poland, it was 2012.

Right.

And at the time, as, as you said,
I come from a small town in Italy,

like, you know, 25,000 citizen.

And I then went to Erasmus in Poland,
in a dance squad, you know, like 500,000

CDs and a big CD living with a lot
of different people from Nashville,

different nationalities, et cetera.

And at that moment, I felt that I
was driving a Ferrari, like every,

every day was so fascinating because
I was surrounded by different

nationalities, learning about, you
know, making a lot of friends from

Romania, from Spain, France, et cetera.

I, it was so great for me, but as
every great story, there was an end.

So this was a six months Erasmus.

And then when I go, when I went
back to Italy and I went back to the

university and I went back to my own
town after awhile, I was like, Hmm, okay.

This feels like a fear.

Cinquecento not a Ferrari.

So from a, from a variety to
Cinquecento was like, I want more speed.

You know, I want, I want more fun.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You have more space, you have more nature,
but yeah I wanted, I wanted more more

more speed with the, with the Ferrari.

And so that's why I decided I want to go
back to Poland because I had a lot of

friends as well that they, they told me,
look, I think career wise, this was 2014.

I think Poland, it's a great
place to start your career.

Because there are a lot of multinational
companies like Google as well.

And you know, like other companies
like Facebook in Warsaw, so as well.

So it's a, it's a pretty, it was a
pretty interesting place and pretty

Romeo: alive place.

So you got this feedback
from Italians, one Italian,

Antonello: one Italian friend
that was already in Poland.

And he told me, look, if I will be you, I
will start in Wroclaw because at that time

there were a lot of job opportunities in
BroadSoft and I've noticed that there was

the Google office in broad strokes, right?

Funnily enough during that period,
they were starting to build

the Italian Google ads team.

So they were looking for Italian
speakers with digital marketing

knowledge and Google ads knowledge.

And so that's what I already had because
one interesting thing is that during

my Erasmus in Dansk, I actually had the
marketing course with one professor from

the university exactly about Google ads.

Imagine Google ads at university in 2012.

For me, it was like an amazing experience.

And then I think that also, that course
helped me to get the job at Google

because I didn't start from scratch.

I already had a bit of experience with

Romeo: you actually went to courses.

Antonello: So it was a lecture,
actually, it was a class from a professor

and, you know we had, yeah, because

Romeo: there is this stereotype
that the only parties

Antonello: I mean, it was 50, 50, right?

So like 50, 50, 50, like 50
classes and then 50 parties

Romeo: as well.

And then you applied in
Wroclaw, you got the job

Antonello: I found this
role in Google Wroclaw.

And they said they were looking
for Italian speakers with

Google ads, knowledge, and they
applied through a referral.

That's also one important thing to
know that maybe not so many people are

aware that if you apply ,to these big
companies, through our referral, your

chances to get hired are much higher
compared to just sending your CV on

the Google career page and competing
with 1 million applicants every year.

Romeo: So the recruiter has a different
tab, let's say with all the applicants

from referrals, and I suppose.

They are taking

Antonello: you get prioritized is okay.

So yeah, so I, I knew one
person that worked there and

this person made me a referral.

And then, you know, I went through the
interview process five interviews, you

know, I felt like, I don't know if you
remember that game called the metals lug.

So it was like, you know, an
arcade game of the nineties.

And, you know, I felt like the
metals lug game, as part of the

interview, you know, it was like five
different stages, you know, level

one, complete level, two complete.

I was like pretty long interview process.

But

Romeo: tell us about this interview.

I'm curious, like what,
what kind of questions?

Why they were so long?

Well, what's what's happening.

Yeah.

Antonello: So I would say one interesting
thing about the interview at Google art.

The fact that they focus a
lot on behavioral questions.

Okay.

So there are a lot of case scenarios,
questions, and at the end of the day,

they don't want to have their items.

Because I've also in the past
have done interviews for other

companies, but they were more, you
know, analytical like, okay, give

me the, can you do this equation?

Or, you know, give me the name of this
this place in a, in a different country.

Right?

So it was more about this specific
cancer that they wanted to know

why at Google, there are a lot of
behavioral questions and case studies.

So for example, one of the question that
they asked me during the interview was

imagine at the time it was Larry Page, the
CEO of Google, right, right now is Sundar.

And they asked me, imagine Larry
Page comes to you and he tells

you from tomorrow, we want to
make, g-mail a paid product.

What will you do?

What will you tell him?

Yes or no?

Why?

Yes.

Why?

No.

So you have to motivate your answer.

And as you can see, there
is not a right answer.

You know, you can go for.

But if you explain why yes, it makes
sense, but you can also go for no, but if

you explain why not, it does make sense.

So that's what I love about the interview
at Google, that they want to see how

you think rather than tell me exactly
the solve media's equation, you know?

Romeo: Okay.

So I was reading this book from Laszlo
Bock, who is, who was the VP of HR, right.

Google at the beginning.

And he was talking about interviews.

The, the book is called
work better, right.

Or something like that.

Oh, I, I don't remember it either way.

So he was talking about the culture
at Google and so on and so forth.

And one of the things that I found very
interesting is that the recruiters

are very aware about this idea of.

Biases and different
biases that you can have.

And one of them is recency biased.

Right?

So if you had a recent good
experience, you know, in your life,

your, or with this particular person,
you tend to give a higher notes.

Right.

So Can you tell us a bit more about,
you know, why you had so many interviews,

do you think it was also because of
this to avoid biases, to avoid the fact

that, you know, one recruiter my, like
you more and the other than the others?

Or how do you explain this many

Antonello: interviews?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So at the end there are many interviews
because you have to be tested by

different team members, right?

So one team member will test
you about maybe leadership.

Another person will test you
about your cognitive abilities.

Another person will test you
about the role related knowledge.

So the technicalities, for example,
of Google ads, and then you have

the interviews while with the manager
and the manager of the manager.

So they want to have.

With someone that is part of the team,
let's say, ah, I got three interviews

with three people from the Italian
team, because, you know, at the end

of the day, they were heading for
the tell the members, the members.

So they want to see if you are a
good fit for the team, but also

because they might be biased.

I also had an interview with the
manager of the Spanish team and also

the director of the central Europe team.

So they want to see if you are a
good fit for the team, but also good

fit later on for the overall team.

So not only this or smallest team and

Romeo: the evaluation, how it will go,
like would they have some veto vote

or is just a rating from one to five?

Or I'm just curious about.

How they collect all these information
and then make the decision, you leave

Antonello: a feedback basically.

So everyone leaves a feedback.

And I think the most important part
about the bias is that you can see

the other person feedback until
everyone completes the interview.

Right.

So that's the interesting part is
that you have three sets of interview

than each one leaves the feedback, and
then the manager sees all the feedback

and then they make the decision.

Okay, let's go with the fourth stage.

Let's go with the fifth
stage, for example.

Okay.

Romeo: Okay.

Got it.

Fascinating.

Th that is, that is,

Michal: yeah.

I'm curious.

Like if if you were to maybe not fail one
of these stages, but just not do as good.

But, but if you're doing well in
the others, if that's enough to

sort of keep you on board, but yeah.

Anyways.

Yeah.

Romeo: So then you, you got into, into
this position and you move to fraud

Antonello: spa.

Yeah.

So then I moved to BroadSoft and yeah, I
started that in 2014 and they were there

for a two and a half year around yeah.

Two and a half years.

And yeah, in that role, basically,
it was an entry level job.

So I was dealing with the.

Support for Google ads for
Italian advertisers, both small

companies and marketing agencies.

So at the beginning, I started to support
small companies because, you know, my

knowledge of the product was still very
small, but as soon as I understood more,

I know I develop my skills, et cetera.

I moved internally to a different team.

Still part of the customer support
team, where I was at being the

biggest Italian advertisers with
with their marketing campaign.

So whenever they had an issue or attack
either technical or, you know, they wanted

to set up certain strategies we were
going to Italy, for example, having a

meeting with them or, you know I mean,

Romeo: getting out goals, I'm curious
when you are going back to your

hometown and you had this confetti
factories that wanted to sell what they

asking the Google ads campaign, this
and the actual, you know, Promoting

the confetti to the Royal family on.

Antonello: Yeah, no, unfortunately
I don't have the direct contact

with the owner of the factory.

Romeo: They don't need,
they have a huge brand

Antonello: awareness, I think maybe
not, they don't have a monopoly because

there are two or three companies
that are producing this confetti.

But yeah, I think they do marketing
marketing you know, online as well.

But yeah, they didn't reach out to me,

Romeo: but on the serious note,
I was just wondering how you how

was the reaction of, you know, the,
because from the small town to Google,

like I think it's like a wow effect.

Antonello: Yeah, I think especially,
you know, my family was very happy also

my friends as well, you know, they were
like you know, it's something that

doesn't happen very often, especially
in a small town, but actually I got to

know when it was, I think few months
ago that the results saw another girl

from my city that works in Google.

I didn't know.

I, I just found it randomly.

Yeah.

Romeo: Go for this and Google or

Antonello: maybe the comfort.

These are the secret.

Michal: I think pretty soon the confetti
is going to be like second tier of,

and you guys are going to be like, oh,
this is what the town is known for.

Romeo: So how did that
develop in, in Google?

Because I suppose there's
a huge competition, right?

So you have on this Italian
team, you have Italian team and

all the European teams, right?

And each team has, how many members, like,
I dunno, they had a bunch of members.

Antonello: It depends on
the size of the market.

You know, it could go from five
team members to up to 20, 40

depends on the size of the market.

Yeah.

So

Romeo: there is a huge competition.

And then from Rosa, tell us a little
bit about your you're transferred

to Krakow and how did that happen?

And what were you doing in, in
crackles as soon as you came here?

Antonello: I would say I still remembered
when I did the interview and I asked the

person that you know, was interviewing me.

I was like, Hey, what are the
career opportunities at Google?

As soon as you enter this role,
or, you know, maybe after a

few years you are in this role.

And he was like, look, I actually
think this is the biggest problem

you will have because there are
so many career opportunities.

Yeah, as you can, as you know,
Google is a way is present

everywhere in the world, right?

So you could move to Sydney, you could
move to us, you could move to London

and, you know, joined the marketing
team for Google play, like everything.

You could try everything.

So he was actually saying that
that's one of the biggest problems,

because you could do everything.

So you need to decide exactly
what do you want to do?

And so I started to notice one trend
and it was the trend about outsourcing.

So I noticed that more and more
companies, not only Google, but you

know, also be companies they were
investing in outsourcing through

outsourcing partners, like, you
know, companies like Accenture and

these type of companies, Jeremy now.

Yeah.

And so I've noticed that Paul
and his specialty was a big

place for outsourcing and it was
like, okay, two plus two is four.

Okay.

Let me think about it.

Yeah.

I'm not, is that the crack co-market
market, especially was growing a lot

too when it comes to outsourcing.

So say, okay, that could be a nice and
interesting niche to ride because I,

I believe in the concept that it's nicer
and it's easier to ride the wave that

is growing right, compared to going to
going into an industry that is declining.

So I wanted to find that place
at Google and that's why I

decided to go for outsourcing.

So then in 2017, I applied to this
role as a sales suppression, man.

You had in Cracow where it was basically
managing a new operation together

with with a vendor partner company
of account manager for Google ads.

So we are the team of account
managers contacting a small and

medium businesses across Europe to
optimize their marketing committee.

I'm curious,

Romeo: you went again through
this whole recruitment process.

Yeah.

I

Antonello: went through the internal

Romeo: recruitment process

Antonello: at this time.

This time there were five
stages, but only three.

I see.

I

Romeo: see.

So it's harder to get in exert later.

It sounded.

And I want to go back a little bit
about on this also getting in because

we didn't touch on what are actually
those competencies that you believe were

considered, you know, by the recruiter.

To get to this job because many people
would ask this, okay, this is the process.

I understand this is the ranking.

So on and so forth, but why do they
choose the people that they choose?

Right.

Antonello: So I would say I have this
concept that you need to find your

unique, competitive advantage, right?

Everywhere you want to apply.

So for me, it was the Italian
language and also the fact

that this role was in Poland.

And also since it was an entry level
job, they were looking for, you

know, fresh graduates with a little
bit of experience with Google ads.

So I had experience with Google ads,
so I didn't have to study it from

scratch because, you know, I already
had the opportunity to work on campaigns

for my brother's company as well.

And they also had this
course at the university.

And second, it was Poland, as I said.

So imagine when you think about
being an expert, especially in

Italy, there is this concept.

A, I want to be an expert.

I would like to live in London, Paris,
Barcelona, you know, the fancy places.

So not so many people are
willing to move to Poland.

And I consider this unique advantage for
me because I was not competing with all

the Italians that wanted to go to London,
Dublin, or, you know, their fancy places.

And I said, okay, let's try it in Poland.

And the third one, it
was the Italian language.

So I was competing only with the hand.

I was competing with Italians
that wanted to go to Poland

and add Google ads, knowledge.

Right.

So how big is that?

Competition competition, right?

Compared to people that if you, if I would
have started in Google, I will have to

compete with Italians that wants to be
Milan and that have Google ads, knowledge

.
Romeo: So it was not necessarily
the studies you had, or

Antonello: I would say also because
I studied business administration.

Right.

So I had marketing and marketing actually
was one of the best subject that I studied

and, you know, the one I loved the most.

So it clicked for me immediately.

I still remember this, this moment with
my marketing professor at university.

And I remembered that she was at, you
know, the chapter two or three of the,

of the book while I was at chapter 10.

So I really wanted.

To study that book.

And it was actually the Kotler
book, the modern marketing

from, from Kotler and the Bible.

And for me, it was exactly the Bible.

And for me, it was weird because, you
know, with all the other subjects, like,

you know, private law, public law as well.

Oh my gosh.

These were really tough to adjust.

But with marketing, I was like,
Hey, it feels like I'm reading a

magazine, not, not a university book.

So, and that clicked in my mind.

I was like, Hmm, I think I should
do something connected to marketing.

And then Google was the right place.

Romeo: Okay.

And then, and then when you came to, to
Krakow or sales operations, you already

had the experience of doing the job of,
you know, Google ads support and so on

that actually you will manage here, right?

Antonello: Yeah, exactly.

So I was teaching and coaching.

This vendor companies on how
to optimize their campaign, you

know, making trainings as well.

And, you know, we were doing, I,
there was actually a series of

training that I created for the team
that was called hands-on training.

So giving them examples on how to
create a campaign or, you know, how

to make certain advanced strategies
for these marketing campaigns.

Because I, I had spent before two
years working closely with the product.

So I knew the inside out of the product.

I mean, right now I'm a bit behind
because as you know, Google ads, Google

ads is changing every three seconds.

So right now I'm a bit behind, but at the
time, my knowledge was was pretty high.

So that's why, you know, I went into this
role with the opportunity to teach others

how to optimize marketing campaigns.

Romeo: And you were also
on top of the vape because.

Outsourcing was growing in Poland.

And then I suppose also Google had
this, this change in which you have

more vendors working for Google, and
then you had this experience, right?

Correct.

Like previously it was not

Antonello: the case.

Yeah, correct.

So it, it happened all around
between 2017, 2018, I will say where.

More and more Google was
outsourcing to this vendor partners

and I was in the right spot.

Right.

Because we were growing a lot.

I was growing as well together
with the, with the company.

So it was a perfect match
for, for my career growth.

Romeo: Cool.

So this is the, the
Google era let's call it.

Yeah.

But then it's the YouTube era, which is
part of Google at the end of the day.

But are there some differences
between the two or how, how,

how do you see differences?

Because it's different platforms,
different things, but I'm just wondering

if the company per se it's the same.

Antonello: So I joined this
YouTube team at the end of 2020.

So it's like almost one year and half
the time in a part of this team, I

would say the main differences that
I've noticed is the fact that it's

easier to get to know everyone within
the company because it's a smaller

company compared to the whole Google.

Right.

So.

Whenever, for example, I'm in touch
with the engineering team, I'm in touch

with legal team, I'm in touch with the
marketing team while maybe at Google.

I was only surrounded
by my marketing team.

Right.

So I didn't have the opportunity
to collaborate maybe with

engineering or marketing or I
don't know, legal team, right.

Wailea, because it's a smaller company.

I mean 6,000 employees.

Right?

So not that small, but still we have
the chance to collaborate more across

companies across the, in the team.

Sorry.

And we have the opportunity to
not to see exactly the launch

of new products from scratch.

So you know that there is these
shorts right now that they are

available on a, on a YouTube platform.

So I was able to see this
from behind the scene.

Right.

And that was was pretty interesting.

That's

Romeo: cool.

So you At the end of the day,
specialized went into this unique

selling proposition, let's say like that
Italian in Poland, then you identified

the niche, which was outsourcing.

Right.

What trends or what kind of
technologies or what kind of industries

you see today in 2022 growing?

And if you would be a student now, like,
let's say Antonella after Erasmus, let's

say this way after the Erasmus in Gdansk,
but you are in 2022 with the know-how

that you have today with the same, with
the information that you have today

on the trends what would you choose?

Like what, what part would you, would
you choose and why would you choose that?

Antonello: I would say I have two ideas.

If I would have to restart one
idea, it's more following the mind.

Another idea is more
following their heart.

Let's say so if I will have to follow the
mind, I will go and do computer science.

Okay.

I see it everywhere.

Right.

So I think if you are an engineer
right now, and you have people

that are looking for you, they
will knock at your door right now.

So, and this is the future, right?

So in, in every company
they need engineers.

Like, you know, softwares are
coming from every corner, wherever

you see, wherever you look, you
can find the software, right?

So I will study computer
science specifically not

become a developer, et cetera.

So if I will have to follow the mind,
if I will have to follow their heart,

I think I will go for psychology.

Because, especially after the
pandemic, people started to realize

that, Hmm, maybe we should pay more
attention on how we think what's

happening with our mind, et cetera.

And I see inside the
companies and outside as well.

So that's what I will do right now.

If I will be a student, let's go more deep

Romeo: into that because the computer
science is kind of officious.

I mean, many of, many of the people who
come to this podcast where we talk about

growth they are from this industry
or they recruit for this industry,

but you are from the technology and
you say, okay, we need to look at

the mind, especially after pandemic.

You think it's a thing, first of all,
why do you think it's from the pandemic?

Like what, what did boost this
Importance of mental health and of

understanding better behavior psychology.

Antonello: I would say the biggest
impact is the fact that you are not

working closely with people, right?

So you don't have the personal
relationship there, you know, personal

touch, et cetera that you have
whenever you see someone in the office.

Right?

So you need to be able to understand
how to build these relationships.

So you need to know how this person feels.

So you need to have a great
emotional intelligence to build

the relationship through a GVC.

Right.

So that's why I think it's very important
and we see it's it's a camera.

So if you want to do a video call,
we call it the GVC Google, right?

So Google video call, right?

Okay.

Yeah, so.

I think that that's the main reason.

And even if you want to be a manager
right now, and you want to manage people

remotely, I think having this knowledge
on how to deal with people, being good

at emotionally, having a great emotional
intelligence that will help you a lot.

Because at the end of the days, you
know, when you have an experience with

a company, the first person that you
see is the manager, you know, there

is this saying, you don't leave a
company, you leave the manager, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

So imagine you have this knowledge.

So you will, you are perceived a
great manager at the end of the day.

If you are a great manager, you might
be a great leader and you normally grow

because people say good thing about you.

Everyone values you more.

So

Romeo: yeah.

Sometimes what do you do?

Because you talk about this
as a, as a manager and yes.

I understand that leaders need
that emotional intelligence,

leadership skills, yada, yada, yada.

You have the entry point?

Entry-level sorry.

And she level employees that
also need to make sure that okay.

They understand behavior
psychology and so on.

What, what advice is and what would
you say about those categories

and that audience that is at the
beginning of the whole journey?

Antonello: I mean, as an entry level, if
you want to grow one of these kids that

you need to learn is how to influence
others, how to be a natural leader

without having the title of a leader.

And that's why I would still prefer
to, you know, for them to study

psychology so that they will know what
makes people, you know, stick with

the message, et cetera, how to craft
your narrative at the end of the day.

So w what, w what that will, that DIA
is the fact that as an entry-level.

I think something for me that is
very important is the productivity.

So when you look inside companies,
why people are growing, because

maybe they are doing something
that they haven't been asked for.

Okay.

Because at the end of the day, if you're
an entry level, you go to work, maybe

you do your job, but if you continue to
just work and do your job without adding

additional value, you won't be noticed
you won't be perceived as a natural

leader within the team, et cetera.

So I think that's why having this psycho
psychology knowledge might help you to

understand, Hey, how can I lead people?

I call this, you know, the
horizontal leader, right?

The leader within the team and not
their leader, because you have the

Yarki to be the manager, right?

So you grow with the support of your team.

Romeo: But then there is a very
thin line between influencing

and manipulating, right?

And this is the same in marketing because
we all study behavioral psychology.

So I worked in conversion rate
optimization, which is actually how you

create the value experience in a way that
the user is one consuming more on that

particular website and Indian buys more.

Right?

Yep.

So and there is a very thin line
between, you know, when you understand

the human behavior and what can
influence them from, you know, the

font that you put, the colors that
you put, how you, how you can nowadays

even personalized the whole website.

Is it raining in that particular location
of that user so that you optimize the

website in the colors of the mood right.

Which can easily influenced that.

So these are very, you
know, it's a very thin line.

Right.

So I I'm wondering how, how do
you see this in, in marketing,

especially, and also in, you
know, the entry level position?

Antonello: I would say you touched on
a really good point, the manipulation,

you know, around marketing, et cetera.

I would say the reason of studying
the brain also that is interesting

is how to prevent your brain
from being manipulated could.

Right.

So that's one, another reason that why
I would go again for, for psychology.

The way I see it around
marketing, I will say.

You know, there are bad practice
disease and there are good practice.

And I think at the end of the
day, everyone has a reputation.

So ski, phew, over abuse, these type of
practices, or, you know, there, there

is this term called nudges as well.

Or, you know, you try to do something
that, you know, you try to make

something more invisible and you
try to bring the user where you

want to make a specific action.

I think after a while, if you
over abuse this tactic, I think

you will pay the consequences.

So I would say you can, you can
use this type of knowledge to

maybe increase your conversion
rate, but we'll say up to a limit.

Romeo: Yeah.

And I think in the workspace is the
same because the, I was reading some

articles that as soon as a pandemic hit.

The one, the ones the introverts started
to be performers, which usually they

were not the biggest performance in
the workspace because they will not

these popular guys who are talking with
everybody and connecting with everyone.

So I think that's, that's important
to to see difference between

how the brain actually works.

That it not necessarily, you need to
do the work when you are at workspace,

but only because you are connecting.

Yep.

So how do, how do you see this, this,
because you at Google, you have a huge

I believe innovation that you, you
created in terms of workspace, right?

Because you need to create the
workspace in a way or the whole

organizational culture also.

To actually promote this
innovation and to harvest innovation.

Right.

But COVID changed that.

So you all went home even in Google
offices, you know, from your nice

fancy Google offices to home, right?

Yep.

And how is this changing now?

How, how do you see that you don't
have this, this environment anymore?

Are people going to coworking spaces or
how you think that this will will change?

Antonello: So I would say as soon
as everyone went back home, right?

So you could, the notice immediately,
if you are working for Google

IBM, Facebook or Uber, right?

Because you are at home.

You have a computer, you are around
four walls, wherever you look, you

don't see the fancy gym or, you
know, the cafeteria from Google.

And so everything feels more
or less similar if you work

for Google IBM, et cetera.

But I think where you will find
still the difference are the people

around you and think that's what made
me even realize even more the fact

that, okay, I'm surrounded by people
that are driven are motivated, you

know, are curious, are inspiring.

That's what makes me think.

Okay.

It's a great place to be.

Even if I'm working at home and they
don't have the fancy cafeteria or,

you know, the gym in the office.

And second, I would say the paying
attention to the employee even more.

So Google is one of the
most famous companies.

How they take care of their employees.

Right?

So for example, we received additional
days of we call them, you know,

global reset day where the whole
company switches off for one day.

Actually we have one, one day of
next week and the thing these small

tiny details make makes you feel
more valued as part of a company

compared to maybe, you know, standard
company or, you know, that maybe

they are not having these practices.

So that's what I would say.

It's still valuable and interesting while
working for a, for a company like Google.

And second I will say is the fact that.

When we went remote, we
had to learn from startups.

We had to learn the concept of,
you know, having stand-up calls.

We'd maybe brainstorming boards not
physically, but you know, online, for

example, you know, we, the tools like
Miro, you know, Google jam board,

et cetera, we had to learn from the
startups because, you know, remote

startups are out there since many
years, while for Google, it was the

first time that they were working, the
whole company was working remotely.

So I think it was also a nice way
to see how Google learned from

the startup during this period.

Michal: This is a sort of a, a
common pattern that we've seen,

like sort of big companies.

Once a company becomes a big, it
tries to find ways to become smaller.

Right.

Either by creating teams or departments,
which sort of act as small startups.

It seems like a reoccurring pattern.

Romeo: Yeah.

And you mentioned about the
Google startups and how now you

guys learned from the startups.

So actually, can you tell us
a bit more about, you know,

what, what is Google startups?

Why should one someone participate
in the, these type of programs?

And if there are any success stories
from, from Poland that, you know

Antonello: yep.

So let's start from Google
for startups, right?

So it's it's a team within Google, right?

That focuses on.

Online and offline help for startups.

So let's start from the offline.

As we know there are many campuses around
the world and especially in Europe where

Google has a presence within that city.

So we are in Poland and, you know,
Google as a campus in Warsaw where

it's a space available for everyone.

You could go there, work
from there, et cetera.

And also it's a place where
Google in the past, before the

pandemic they were running these
accelerator programs, right?

So this equity free program where
you could go, you could apply and

receive all the mentorship from
Google and experts from the industry.

So you, you are also there Romeo.

So that's the offline part on the online.

There are so many resources that
Google provided provides for free on

the Google for startup webpage, right?

So you could see, for example, how to run
a meeting or you know, how to start your

first Google ads campaign or you know,
how to get a founding and so on and so on.

And this knowledge is available for
free for everyone, because at the

end of the day, Google wants to help
the whole ecosystem of the startups.

Because at the end of the day, this
small startups that starts right now

later on might become big customers.

And they might become big
partners for Google as well.

They might adopt a Google cloud solution.

They might start using
Google ads, et cetera.

So it's a win-win relationship.

Like I develop the ecosystem and
maybe later on, I will get some

finger return if the company grows.

Romeo: So you'd send it on the term,
a plan that Google makes in a way.

Oh, so in.

Maybe some of those engineers
would want to join Google or maybe

they will become customers, right.

Customer acquisition strategy, correct?

Yeah.

Antonello: Yeah.

And when it comes to success stories
important I think there was one

company called the Informatica.

If I remember correctly that, you know,
participated in one of the Google

for startup accelerator and then grew
exponentially, so received a lot of

funding as well, even from abroad.

So this is the one that I remember,
and I don't remember other, sorry, now.

Yeah.

Romeo: So I'm I'm aware of time.

So I would like to focus
now a little bit on.

Career development a bit more on this.

We touched a lot into what kind of
competencies you need to get into Google

and so on, but there is another category
that I would like to talk to you about,

which is the professionals, right?

Like you're not a recent grad anymore.

Let's say you work for one of the
corporations, maybe even let's

say for one of the vendors, right.

Of Google or wave you work in some kind
of outsourcing company, because here in

Cracow we have a lot of them, especially
centralist in Europe is famous for debt.

Yeah.

But you realize that.

Okay.

I would like to, I'm inspired by
Antonella let's say, and I have this

unique unique selling proposition.

Let's put it this way, like this
unique thing that I could push.

And switch my career.

How would you do that?

Antonello: Hi, will they switch from
one big corporation to something else,

Romeo: maybe smaller, maybe a bigger,
but basically a different role.

Totally different industry maybe.

Yeah.

Yep.

Antonello: I would say again, I will
restart from my competitive advantage.

That is if you work in a big company,
you have structure, you know, how

to structure thing, you know how to
create processes as well and who needs

processes, startups that are growing.

Right.

So that's what I will focus my attention.

Let's say.

And I've seen a lot of people make
this career move from Google,

you know, and other companies.

You are a manager at Google and maybe you
become a VP in a startup because at the

end of the day, you know, you maybe have
been in one of the best gym in the world.

So you train yourself with how to
create teams, how to create processes,

how to make structure during the
week, how to prioritize your workload.

And then you give back to a small
startup, a startup that, you

know, it's in the growth phase.

I would say around 50 to 100 employee
might be a nice, a nice place to start.

And I will look for, you know, if you are
a manager, potentially, you know, project

manager roles, or, you know, if it will be
me, for example, I will look for customer

support role, you know, becoming the head
of the customer support or, you know, the

head of the marketing team, et cetera.

Because right now I have the knowledge.

If I would have to start the
customer support team from scratch,

I know what we need in that.

So that's how I will
sell my unique advantage.

Romeo: So what I'm getting a lot
from this podcast is definitely

this competitive advantage.

That is what makes

Antonello: you unique at the end?

Yeah,

Romeo: for sure.

So would you go for some courses
or do you think it's more the

practical thing that matters?

I'm just curious, how do you see
it as a, as a Google or YouTube,

Antonello: or I am a huge
fan of courses as well.

So sometimes they might tell
from a networking point of

view or, you know, from.

You, especially, if you want
to do a career switch, right?

Imagine I would love to
go to finance right now.

I will need to have technical
knowledge because, you know, I

don't have any accounting knowledge
may have the basics of accounting.

So I can't sell myself
in the finance world.

So I will need to go and study, maybe not
take a career break for one or two years

and go and go there and study, sorry,
not study during the week and et cetera.

So especially for career switch, I
would say courtesies will help you.

If you don't have to do a career switch,
going to a different industry, I think

you can find still your way without

Romeo: courses.

Yeah.

We were talking with George,
from survey Kate, who is the

director of marketing there.

And he was mentioning that if you
do this in marketing, maybe is quite

different than in finance, right?

Because you can start doing stuff.

You do podcast, you do a blog.

You do, you don't need to do
necessarily like a huge course on

this because the information is out
there and it's more intuitive than,

you know, accounting or finance.

Yeah.

So it, it depends, it depends on this.

And you have some books that you would
recommend to people like any kind of

resources where somebody like even
recent graduate or someone who wants

to switch, where would you direct them?

Antonello: Yeah, I would say one
of the books that impacted me the

most, it's called a design your life.

I think the name of the author is
bill our net if I remember correctly.

So he leads these Design thinking
team at Stanford university.

And this course actually is one of
the most followed course at Stanford.

And in this book basically he
explains how to design your life

using the design thinking methodology.

Right.

Right.

So I would say, especially for careers,
which that's a great book to start.

Romeo: That's great.

That's I, I love it

Michal: in the past two years.

So many people have been sort of pivoting
businesses have been pivoting, but we've

seen a lot of people just leave their jobs
and just kind of click the reset button

and, and trying something new, trying
startups for, for one reason or another.

So I mean

Romeo: the great resignation.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

Which, which made this district.

Great.

I think that's about it.

I really love this, this interview
and to go through this, to this.

And now I hope that all our listeners
have a better understanding on how

it's possible to go from the confetti
city in Italy to work for this VIG.

What was the name of the again
of the city sold mana Sulmona.

So to go from Sylvia.

To work for Google.

That's great.

Thanks

a

Antonello: lot.

Thanks a lot for our mayor
invited for inviting me and

Romeo: For the people who are in
here in Krakow, I know that you

have some initiatives that you
want to do as like on your own.

Can you tell us before we, before we
finish, what are yours initiatives?

How can people you know, get to
know you where to contact you and

if they want to be part of this

Antonello: initiatives.

So the best place to find me is
LinkedIn, I will say so you can

find me on Trello's Galvon LinkedIn.

One thing I want to mention as
well that I offer one hour of

free starter mentorship every week.

So like, I, I'm a huge believer of giving.

So I want to donate one hour of my
time for, you know, start a mentorship

and photograph go initiatives.

Definitely know there is something
in the boiling, in the pot three.

Now I want to tell you more,
but I will tell you if you are

interested in personal finance, you
will find something coming soon.

Romeo: Great.

Cool.

So thanks a lot for your time also
guys one hour from a Googler.

If you're a startup, I think you
should take advantage of that for sure.

Definitely.

And CRN.

Yep.

Thanks.

Thank

Antonello: you.

Bye-bye

Michal: all right.

Wow, Romeo, it, it takes
five interviews to get into

Romeo: Google.

Yeah, and I, I suppose in some
cases it can be even more, but,

you know, competitive advantage.

This is the, the key word of the day.

Michal: Okay.

I was also thinking as, as we
were recording and talking to them

that like maybe the, the name of
this episode should be Italian,

goes to Poland to drive Ferrari.

Romeo: Yeah.

Because of the diocese.

So I never heard that good dance can
be considered as a Ferrari, but I'm

sure that the city will appreciate it.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

So I think one of the most
interesting parts for me was.

The fact that Antonella went out from his
like comfortable zone, right from Italy

to Poland, where at the end of the day
Italians, when they want to be expressed,

they want to be in these fancy cities.

But he looked into not necessarily
the city or the countries where

his Contra pairs were going, but
where can I have this competitive

advantage with the language with.

University that I did, where can I make
it really fast in this tech industry?

And best choice you can have,
I suppose it's it's Google,

Michal: right?

So he talked about having that a unique,
competitive advantage, but he also

talked about riding a wave that's there,
you know, not, not looking for a dying

industry and sort of just riding it
down, but, but really thinking about

it and, and seeing, okay, I'm seeing
this trend, I'm seeing this trend.

And as he said, two plus two, four, let's

Romeo: look into this.

Yeah.

And this was this outsourcing niche.

Right?

Right.

Because Poland, back then there
was growing a lot in outsourcing.

He came to crack out to
actually train people in.

This whole Google ads you know,
elephant, which, because it is an

elephant, this whole Google ads thing,
and he was actually doing the job.

So it was very natural and easy
transition to now work with vendors.

And Google was actually moving
into that that strategy let's say.

And and then moving from Google to
YouTube to do a vendor management,

which is also into outsourcing.

I mean, for me, it was just amazing
to look at how someone can identify.

And follow the trend and, and,
and be on the top of that.

Yeah.

I also

Michal: really appreciate the fact
that we got to sort of look behind

the curtain at such a big company.

And just, just kind of see how
people there think, how they

approach problems and how they
look at their own personal value.

We talked a lot about sort of the division
between what the mind wants and what

the heart wants and like conversations
like this make big companies like Google

and YouTube and, and whatnot makes it.

There's people there.

It's not just these gigantic corporations.

These, these are run by teams.

These are run by people who are
around us who have similar problems

and but obviously making products
and services, which are incredibly

influential in our modern world.

Romeo: Yeah, that was a good one.

Thanks again for Antonella.

Michal: Thank you for listening.

Gossip was recorded at local
workspace and community.

If

Romeo: you enjoyed listening,
please give us a share or review

Michal: on apple podcasts or
wherever you listen to us.

Romeo: See you next time.